Curse

Inde · May 09, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

I actually agree with him. This is a very bad thing if you think of the consequences.

There's already a fairly large gap that a PvE player needs to bridge to get into PvP. Namely, they need to learn to kite, pre-kite, communicate, build PvP-specific bars, learn those bars, learn to weapon swap, etc.

Adding differences to skills makes making bars and learning them even harder. Using WY! in PvE is identical to how you'd use it in PvP for example, but with two different WY!'s it becomes harder, because maybe they won't even notice its different...until its too late.

It adds even more knowledge they need to learn, which puts anyone off from doing something. There are a ton of people out there who refuse to go to college, not because they don't have the money, but because they don't want to go through 4 years of gaining knowledge again. They get put off of it from school.

It doesn't bother me, as I am a VERY hardcore PvP player, and I can take and memorize this knowledge easily. Name me a skill irl, and I can recite it's concise description, energy cost, activation time, and recharge time without looking at anything. I got em all down pat. And I'm used to making bars for different situations, investing hours into learning them, used to talking, used to macroing shit in StarCraft (weapon swapping is so much easier!), used to moving in certain ways, but your average/casual PvP/PvE interested in PvP person, isn't. This is just another hurdle for them.

Everyone all ready knows that GW has a learning curve. So you're saying that people actually having to think is their biggest hurdle? I don't mean to summarize so badly of course... but everyone screams for balance. It's quite obvious from the numerous MMOG's out there that finding that balance between PvP and PvE is volatile and is rarely ever able to be achieved. This is the first time that it might actually have a chance (only referring to GW here).

We don't even know how exacty they are going to balance it. We don't know WHO is going to. We don't even know what skills they may touch. So how can anyone make a judgement call this early of whether this is good or bad??

Ctb · May 09, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

It adds even more knowledge they need to learn, which puts anyone off from doing something.

I'm sorry, but I think this is completely bogus. I don't think people are so dumb that they'll be unable to differentiate between the skills.

Furthermore, the difference in skills will remain one of the SMALLEST problems regarding gaining a foothold in PvP. I mean, come on. Spend 30 seconds with Local chat on in ToB and tell me with a straight face that any normal person wouldn't be immediately left with a crummy opinion of the PvP aspect of the game. ToB is, by far, the STUPIDEST place in the game, full of chat that would be more at home on AIM or on a Stormfront.org (politically NSFW) board than an RPG.

And, really, RA doesn't get any better. There are "elite" PvPers ganking for fun and insulting people, runners just aggravating people, ragers blaming everyone else for their screw-ups, people drawing penises on the map, and more.

The biggest barrier to entering PvP is the PvP itself. The introductory period is enough to leave just about anybody with an ill impression. Since this will not impact that at all, I think that any negative impact this split could have will be inconsequential in the shadow of ToB/RA/TA first impressions.

First impressions are important, and the first impression many people get of PvP in Guild Wars these days cannot possibly be good.

zwei2stein · May 09, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Pondering: will this effect monsters? Will they get new imba skills or will they keep pvp skills?

That would be actually interesting, buff both to players AND monsters.

1 up and 2 down · May 09, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Better late than never.

Zesbeer · May 09, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

this is interesting to say the least. but i think its going to do more harm then good. i for one think it would have been better to see izzy buff old skills then do all this nerffing, because there is a lot of them that aren't used in pvp or pve. this also means that as far as pve skills go they are not going to get touched.

Cosmic Error · May 09, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

When do we find out what skills get changed?

HawkofStorms · May 09, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Why bother?

The only skill still used in PvE is Ursan. Everything else only applies to PvP, so this separation is done already.

But since this is what GW2 will be like, it makes sense to test it in advance.

QFT. This is a.net saying they give up on skill balancing and don't care if PvE is imbalanced.

The past couple updates have just been moronic.
I'm done, I'm seriously taking a break for a few weeks. A.net has made it so PvE is no fun and not a challenge.

PS. wasn't there a poll on guru suggesting this idea which had extremely NEGATIVE feedback?

DarkNecrid · May 09, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Everyone all ready knows that GW has a learning curve. So you're saying that people actually having to think is their biggest hurdle? I don't mean to summarize so badly of course... but everyone screams for balance. It's quite obvious from the numerous MMOG's out there that finding that balance between PvP and PvE is volatile and is rarely ever able to be achieved. This is the first time that it might actually have a chance (only referring to GW here).

We don't even know how exacty they are going to balance it. We don't know WHO is going to. We don't even know what skills they may touch. So how can anyone make a judgement call this early of whether this is good or bad??

I'm not saying the balance aspect won't be bad, I'm sure this'll improve balance for PvP (can buff/nerf without the WAAA WHY CANT PVPERS ADAPT (YET WE ARENT) BULANCE coming) and will let them throw 60000000 overpowered skills into PvE that the hardcore seem to want (since they complain all the time about nerfs...), but it doesn't change the fact this is just another hoop for those people to pass, and with the PvP population shrinking, more hoops is not always good.

Not this late into the game anyways.

I'm still buying gw2 tho, i don't care about this, but I see his point.

Quote:

I'm sorry, but I think this is completely bogus. I don't think people are so dumb that they'll be unable to differentiate between the skills.

There are people who think Mending is a genuinely good skill and that you should use it all the time, so I doubt this.

I remember entering a match with someone who thought Wail of Doom was its old way and laughed at me for using it. I had to tell him to read the description. He pissed his pants.

A better update notes system (ie: displaying them like WoW and every other game does...from the client.) would help this, I'm sure.

Earth · May 09, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Error

When do we find out what skills get changed?

Next update probably.

Zesbeer · May 09, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

also this is just going to make it so there is a huge huge huge huge divide from people who play pve and people who play pvp.

Boogey Mancer · May 09, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

i hoping for a buff to the pve skills for players and monsters and maybe getting the necros back to where it was before cause necros only got nerfed cause they was overpowered for pvp

Shai Lee · May 09, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I'm going to side with being optimistic and hope that everything works out. I also agree with Inde that it's too early to be making judgements on whether this will be good or bad.

Faer · May 09, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

OMG! Now 55 Monks can be lolnerfed without it hurting PvP!!!!!111!!

ilu anet<3

DOWN WITH PROT SPIRIT IN PVE OMG ETHER RENEWAL THAT SHIT PLZZ

Moloch Vein · May 09, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Now please make separate PvP and PvE versions of the Soul Reaping primary attribute.

Thanks.

Mr. Undisclosed · May 09, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Nerf UB, nerf Sab's 3 necro build, let's make PvE halfway interesting again.

lol go ahead and kill UB but why sabs builds? They were never considered imba and tbh they arent really all that great.

HawkofStorms · May 09, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

OMG! Now 55 Monks can be lolnerfed without it hurting PvP!!!!!111!!

ilu anet<3

DOWN WITH PROT SPIRIT IN PVE OMG ETHER RENEWAL THAT SHIT PLZZ

Hehe. So there is one possitive benefit.

But, a.net won't do that. They would piss off too many farmers. A.net won't do it because they are going to be treating PvE with carebear hands. There will be no nerfs now ever, unless it is to a monster skill.

DarkNecrid · May 09, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

OMG! Now 55 Monks can be lolnerfed without it hurting PvP!!!!!111!!

ilu anet<3

DOWN WITH PROT SPIRIT IN PVE OMG ETHER RENEWAL THAT SHIT PLZZ

Skill Update - Friday May 09, 2008
Monk:

*Protective Spirit: Now costs 25 energy, takes 3 seconds to cast, has a recharge time of 30s. Functionality changed to: "For 1...5 seconds, target ally gains +0...0 Health Regeneration."

Ursan:
*Halved the recharges of all skills, doubled the damage, knockdowns last 4 seconds, hexes/conditions have their durations halved.

imo

FoxBat · May 09, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I'm happy that PvP can live on (better than no updates), but I am saddened at the squalor PvE is being left in. (Yeah, they could in theory balance both better that way... but it's obvious this is simply to quiet people who whine about any nerf at all.)

Quote:

lol go ahead and kill UB but why sabs builds? They were never considered imba and tbh they arent really all that great.

Minion Mancers are still grossly overpowered and have been from day 1. The AI priotizes the decoys and just falls over to them. Only Save Yourselves! and Ursan provide comparable stupid levels of defense.

Boogey Mancer · May 09, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

maybe we will get the true mm back form the old days

odly · May 09, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

They won't have to change many skills. But a few skills have been nerfed into PvE uselessness because they were overpowered when used in certain PvP builds. It will be good to make those skills useable again.